“The whole country must be bayoneted. Absolutely everyone should serve”: Dmytro Kuleba

Recently, the events surrounding the peaceful settlement of the military conflict in Ukraine have been unfolding at an incredible speed. Donald Trump’s sudden dialogue with Vladimir Putin and the subsequent statements of American politicians caused concern in Kyiv. Peaceful settlement became the main topic of the Munich Security Conference, as well as the subject of discussion by the leaders of European states in Paris. In addition, the Russian and American delegations held a meeting in Saudi Arabia for the first time since the beginning of the great war. In this context, the former head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Dmytro Kuleba, shared his thoughts in interview The BBC on possible scenarios for the end of the war, as well as on the increase of the army and the military regime for Ukraine.

Kuleba noted that at the beginning of 2023 it was fashionable to talk about the victory of Ukraine, but now this word has almost disappeared from the political discourse, which is a big problem not only for Ukraine, but also for the whole of Europe. He emphasized that victory remains possible, but currently not enough is being done for it, as Western partners are more interested in ending the war, and not in the victory of Ukraine. In his opinion, the main risk is that when Kyiv itself stops believing in its victory, this chance will be lost. That is why, according to him, it is important to maintain a high bar and maintain focus on military success.

Commenting on statements about a possible truce, Kuleba emphasized that it is more correct to talk about a cease-fire, since it is only the first stage before any further agreements. He noted that Donald Trump’s team mainly talks about the cessation of hostilities, and not about the real settlement of the conflict. At the same time, he expressed doubts about the possibility of peace in the near future, since Vladimir Putin is still convinced that he will be able to outwit the West and achieve his main goal – establishing control over all of Ukraine.

Kuleba drew attention to the fact that the question of who benefits from a pause in the war has been discussed since the end of 2022. According to him, earlier it was unequivocally clear that such a pause would give Russia an advantage. In 2024, some of Ukraine’s partners began to say that Ukraine also needed a pause to regroup forces. However, the main danger is that such a pause could demotivate Western allies and lead to a reduction in military aid. As a result, Ukraine may find itself in a weaker position than it is now. He emphasized that everything depends on who will be more effective in using such a break – Ukrainian or Russian military machine. In his opinion, in the current balance of power, a pause will be more beneficial for Russia.

In addition, Kuleba drew attention to Volodymyr Zelensky’s speech at the Munich conference, which tried to mobilize Europe by warning of threats from Russia. He emphasized that Ukraine has no other choice but to constantly raise the alarm and force the West to pay attention to the war. At the same time, Kuleba admitted that the question is to what extent these signals are really heard in European capitals.

He also noted that the Munich speech of US Vice President Jay D. Vance, who harshly criticized Europe for its passivity, actually played in Ukraine’s favor. This statement made European countries understand that the United States has not only changed its position towards Ukraine, but is also generally revising its attitude towards European security. Kuleba emphasized that many European intelligence services confirm Russia’s preparations for an even larger conflict, but politicians often try not to share this information in order not to scare voters.

In general, Kuleba emphasized that Ukraine should keep a clear course for the continuation of the struggle, since no truce is currently beneficial to Kyiv. He believes that as long as Putin is convinced of his victory, there will be no real peace on the horizon. At the same time, he warned against illusions about a long-term pause in the war, because such a situation could be used by Russia for a new wave of offensive. Ukraine must be ready for all possible scenarios and do everything possible to maintain the support of the West.

Dmytro Kuleba noted that Kyiv will not blindly follow the new American values ​​if they do not contribute to the victory of Ukraine. He noted that for Ukraine this is a matter of survival, and if it is beneficial to adapt to a certain political situation, the country will do so. At the same time, he expressed concern about the rhetoric of JD Vance, who repeatedly used the term “civilization” in his speech. According to Kuleba, this shows that Trump’s new team considers itself to be the bearer of a separate civilizational model that differs from the European one. This poses additional threats to Europe’s current political elites as they realize that this new wave of politicians is trying to replace them.

Regarding the possible “Trump plan”, Kuleba said that Kyiv cannot simply say “no”, because it is a diplomatic game. According to him, the best strategy is to take this plan and say, “Thank you, we’ll think about it.” He explained that Washington is currently only testing the reaction of various parties, so Ukraine’s key task is to involve Trump in a long-term game, and not to give him the opportunity to quickly impose his conditions. Kuleba also emphasized that a similar situation already existed in 2016, when everyone was afraid of a big deal between Trump and Putin, but in the end nothing happened.

Kuleba emphasized that now is the period of demonstration of force and diplomatic pressure. The USA, Russia and even Europe are making statements that look like attempts to scare Ukraine and force it to make compromises. He noted that Kyiv’s main task is to show a cold mind and willpower, and most importantly, not to make mistakes that could have fatal consequences.

Commenting on the NATO summit and the upcoming negotiations in Europe, Kuleba urged the West not to delay and start acting. He believes that European countries should invest in the production of weapons, because only in this way they will be able to become independent from the USA in military support of Ukraine. He also mentioned the strategic partnership between the EU and Ukraine regarding rare earth materials, which can become an important element of Europe’s economic development. According to him, the US wants to gain control over these resources, but it is against European interests. Therefore, Europe must clearly state that these resources will remain at its disposal.

Kuleba believes that the current situation is not a moment for negotiations or beautiful speeches, but a time for concrete actions. He said that only the active position of Ukraine and its allies will allow not only to avoid forced agreements, but also to preserve the country’s independence and its strategic capabilities.

Dmytro Kuleba emphasized that the withdrawal of Russian troops from the territory of Ukraine, the recognition of Ukraine as an independent state and part of the West, which in the future will mean its membership in the EU and NATO, as well as the payment of compensation for the damage caused, are the basic demands of Kyiv. He emphasized that lowering the bar of these demands is not appropriate, as negotiations should be conducted from a position of strength, not concessions.

He also noted that despite some concessions on the part of Kyiv, such as the understanding that Ukraine’s accession to NATO is now impossible, the key goal remains unchanged – the preservation of an independent Ukrainian state. Kuleba emphasized that the state loses its power when society gets tired of defending it. History has repeatedly proven that after the loss of statehood, Ukrainians became victims of occupation, destruction, assimilation and bribery by other states, particularly Russia. He warned against the false belief that the cessation of hostilities will stop aggression and prevent new tragedies like Buchi or Mariupol. On the contrary, the loss of the state will mean even greater repression and the destruction of everything Ukrainian.

Kuleba emphasized that Russia, after all its losses, has no mercy towards Ukraine, and in the event of its defeat, Ukrainians will face long-term, cruel revenge. He believes that the Russians will integrate those who will try to adapt to the new conditions into their economic system, but many others will be destroyed just because they consider the Ukrainian language, national symbols and independence of their country important.

Speaking about security guarantees, Kuleba noted that the best protection for Ukraine is not only membership in NATO, but also powerful Armed Forces. He mentioned the Israeli defense model, which involves the comprehensive militarization of society, but admitted that its implementation requires significant resources and time. If Ukraine aspires to have an army of 1.5 million people, it means a radical change of the entire state structure.

“In essence, the whole country should be put under the bayonet, because we have seen these calculations: one military man is held by five, six, eight – it doesn’t matter, the main thing is that there are many times more civilians.

Therefore, we must understand this and honestly say: we are entering a military regime. We are returning to the era of the Hetmanate. The country should be divided into shelves – I’m not kidding now, it’s very serious. We are introducing real universal military service – for both men and women absolutely everyone must serve. We are changing the culture in society: for example, no one can say that I will teach, so I do not fight.

This means simply turning the country upside down for the money that the partners have to give for it all. That is, in essence, we are telling them: we are the human and cultural revolution, and you are the financial revolution. And so it will continue for decades.” – said Kuleba.